Join Us

Empowering the Next Generation of Women in Audio

Join Us

SJackie Green of Audio Technica

Jackie Green is Vice President of R&D/Engineering at Audio Technica. She’s been involved in the development of several of ATs innovative products and technologies. Jackie also holds patents on key digital and wireless work.

I understand that you played a whole variety of instruments as a child and you also had a love for science. Your interest in electronics and science started at a young age. They don’t teach much about electronics in elementary or high school, so how did you go about learning about circuits and figuring out how to fix equipment?

“I was always building things, even as a young child. We lived in the country and I didn’t have other kids to play with. I spent my time building dams in the creek and boats to try and float and sail without tipping. My father noticed I liked building things and when I was in the 2nd grade, he gave me a small crystal radio kit to build. I was fascinated by how something so simple could make music! That simple project made me curious, so I began to take apart other electronic devices in our home. I discovered that everything was made of the same simple parts. Of course, often upon disassembling things, I broke them. So necessity dictated that I learn how to fix things too. Later on, I built an electric bass and played it through my parent’s stereo. Obviously, that was always breaking – so I then really needed to learn about speakers, vibration, power levels, distortion, as well as circuits. I didn’t actually realize what I was learning about at the time – just that there were various complex interactions that either allowed me to play my bass or didn’t. “

What pushed you to get into product research and development rather than something like performing, recording engineering, or mixing?

“I didn’t ever intend to stop performing music, but I recognized that it would not be a great source of income or stability. So, my plans turned to other careers with a plan of finding an orchestra to play in once I “retired” from real work. I did initially think I’d go into recording or mixing (well, after I decided not to go to vet school – which was my first career choice). I loved finding creative ways to capture the sound I was hearing. I also loved it when all my tracks blended together and then popped into that special place where I know it “feels” just right. But, in the studio, the equipment was always breaking. My lifelong experience led me to dive in and put things right. Many times when I was fixing or re-arranging something I would think that there really was a better way to design it. It wasn’t long until I took up more physics, electronics and digital classes in order to find ways to make things better. And now, here I am 30 years later and I’m still doing that!”

You stared at AT in computer programming, how did you make the transition to R & D, and what spurred you to move to the field?

“When I started at AT, they were a consumer company that mainly distributed phonograph cartridges. They also had some consumer loudspeakers and headphones products. I was attracted by the music reproduction technology and needed a job while I was getting my masters in management. The job they had available was writing programs to analyze market research data, so that’s what I did. Once my masters were finished, I began to work here full time. That’s when we started to develop the pro audio side of the products. R&D was a natural fit because we were starting from ground zero on the professional side of things. I was inspired by the opportunity to research and create solutions on a clean canvas with no preconceived barriers.”

What was the first product you worked on at AT?

“It’s hard to remember what really came first. I worked on consumer loudspeakers and headphones, but on the pro side, I think the first would have been the AT4049, AT4051, AT4053 modular transformerless condenser microphones.”

When you are developing a product, is there a moment when you know you’ve nailed it or do you just get to a point where you’ve decided it’s finished? In other words how do you know when to say when?

“I’ve failed if I haven’t gotten to the “nailed it” stage. Of course, there have been times in my career when for whatever reasons we’ve just had to move on, but gosh that’s hard. I do what I do in order to create a product that when I use it gives me a certain “feeling” that is hard to describe. It’s kind of a synergistic harmony when you know that everything is working together and no part of the sound or function is working against another part. It’s hard to describe – but when you know it’s right, you know you’ve nailed it and it’s done. I find that working past that stage, or second guessing yourself will usually result in a lesser product.”

What was one of the most interesting or exciting projects you’ve worked on, and do you have a favorite?

“One of the most interesting was developing a time-domain measurement that allowed us to look at how a microphone keeps responding after the initial transient. The activity that happens over time is essential to the actual sound quality of the microphone, and creating something that lets me see this was awesome! As for “favorite” – it really tends to be whatever I’m working on at the moment because it’s the process and discovery that are the most fun as opposed to the specific product.”

Do you find that most products come from a desire to improve an existing product or out of a need for something completely different?

Jackie and AT President Phil Cajka accepting the TEC Award

“Most of my ideas or goals for a product come from a desire to create something new and better as a tool for the acquisition or playback of great sound, so there is always a “need.” Whether I need to improve something existing or create something new depends on the problem that I’m trying to solve. I do have one weakness, though. If someone says “that can’t be done,” then I am strongly inclined to try and do it.”

What is the best part of your job and what is the most difficult?

“The best part is the ability to pursue my creative curiosity. The most difficult is convincing others to follow when I want to do something that no one else has done before.”

There are so few women in professional audio, I can only imagine there are even fewer who do what you do. Have you met with many obstacles or much sexism? If so, how have you handled it?

“Of course I have met with obstacles and sexism, but I generally don’t even realize it until afterward. I was raised to not accept any excuse or obstacle because of who I am or where I came from. That is so ingrained, I can’t even imagine accepting a limit or filter. I must credit my family for this. On top of that internal compass, I’m an engineer. I like to make decisions based upon good and complete data. When others judge me without good and complete data (such as based only upon gender) I find it more frustrating to be dismissed because they are using bad data than because they are being discriminatory. I can’t change who I am or who others are – but I can try to influence them to use good/complete data.“

What advice do you have for young women and girls who are interested in science but intimidated by it?

“If you are interested in science, then ask yourself why you are interested. Ask yourself if there is anything that would be really fun to try or know more about. Then ask yourself – so why wouldn’t I want to try it? The “why nots” will tell you what you need to do to stop feeling intimidated – or even embarrassed – to have this interest. Since girls are actually very creative and intuitive, science is a fantastic field for them. I don’t think the intimidation comes from the actual area of science, it comes from concern about how they will fit in. Luckily today, there are lots of clubs, social networks, and activities for girls and young women to experience connections with others who also feel this curiosity. Stand up for yourself and get involved. Find a teacher or a woman professional and talk to them about what you can do. I’m pretty sure you’ll find a world of support once you look!”

What are the most useful skills for someone interested in this career?

“Creativity, knowledge of acoustics and physics, and very importantly, a solid adherence to the scientific method. You can really fool yourself and go down the wrong path if you are not careful about the process. This is one of the biggest mistakes I see engineers making (both male and female). Make a plan, identify your controls, make only one change at a time, check your work many times and carefully record and consider all your results before jumping to conclusions. Stay your course. Also, in this field knowledge of, or love of music also helps.”

Can you tell us about a current project you are working on?

“Currently I’m very busy working on alternate transmission and reception methods for wireless microphones. There are some very difficult challenges that exist with today’s very hostile and shrinking RF spectrum. I’m looking for ways to provide the same high-quality professional audio sound and reliability that exists when using a wired microphone in a wireless device. We are truly finding ways to do “more with less” – and I refuse to sacrifice the sound to do it.”

Is there anything else you would like to add?

“Let’s talk about math. I think math scares off many potentially great engineers (both genders). I personally don’t feel we are teaching math correctly in school these days. There is too much focus on “finding the right answers over and over” and not enough focus on the real reasons why we use math. Don’t give up on engineering if you aren’t doing well in math in school. We have computers to do those calculations. You need to know what is possible to do, and you need to know what type of math “tool” is available to help you get to your goal, and that’s it. Maybe this will be the one thing you have to get extra help with during school – but please don’t let this stop you. Einstein was terrible at math, right? Or was he just having trouble with how math was done in school? If you are an “engineer” you will find a way to get around this obstacle.”

*Microphone images courtesy of Audio Technica

Karen Kane – Woodstock Inspires A Life in Music

Woodstock is the iconic music festival that continues to influence the music industry today. Woodstock brought over 350,000 rock n roll fans to a six-acre farm in Bethel, New York to celebrate three days of peace and music. Woodstock inspired countless attendees to pursue careers in the music industry, one of them was a young woman by the name of Karen Kane. Woodstock would inspire and put her on a journey that would start by learning to play music and wind up forty years later as a well-respected audio engineer with countless awards to her name, owning a professional studio, and teaching the next generation of audio engineers.

One of Karen’s earliest jobs was managing 6 West Recording, a New York jingle house. Even though she was working in a studio, Karen says she still did not think about a career as an engineer. Karen explains “When I worked at 6 West Recording, there was an unspoken rule that women did not touch the equipment”. Thankfully, there were a few engineers that took Karen under their wings and trained her, and most importantly taught her that she could be a recording engineer regardless of her gender.

Karen would move to Boston and enroll in Berklee College of Music, where she studied guitar and bass performance. She then landed a job at Intermedia Sound in Boston, starting as an assistant studio manager but soon after starting work there; she received two diplomas from the Recording Institute of America. (The first audio classes in the U.S. were held at Intermedia). She learned the basics of audio, as it applied to analog recording in a studio environment While there, Karen would pull all-nighters with one of the engineers, learning everything she could, including how to ride a motorcycle. Eventually, Karen would become one of the studio’s engineers.

Once in a blue moon is a woman does work in our favor, although I admit very rarely. For Karen it was beneficial as she explains “I hooked up with a community of musicians who were “folky/leftists” and when they wanted to record their songs, they wanted to use a woman because it was a male-dominated occupation and they wanted to make a statement by using a woman engineer. So even though I was a beginner and not very good yet, I got the job because I WAS a woman. I ended up making albums with them for the next 12 years and got better and better”. Karen learned everything hands-on, after graduating from RIA. Karen credits Barry Ober, R. Berred Ouellette, and Bob Stoughton as being her early mentors at Intermedia.

Intermedia 1977

Through the years Karen spent in Boston she continued to work as an independent recording engineer, music producer, and live sound engineer. You can check out all her recording and live sound credits on her website mixmama.com.

One of Karen’s favorite live gigs was the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, where she was the live sound engineer for the acoustic stage for 19 years (she retired in 2010). The Michigan Womyn’s Festival often called the Womyn’s Woodstock was an international feminist music festival. It started in 1976 and was put on every year (until 2015) in August with attendance ranging from 3,000 to 10,000.

The event is unique in that women built all of the stages, ran the lighting and sound systems, provided electricians, security, and medical services. They facilitated workshops covering various topics of interest to the attendees. Hundreds of women spent upwards of a month out on the land building the festival from the ground up because every year the festival was torn down, leaving the land as close to how it was found as possible. You can read more about this unique festival here Michigan Womyn’s Festival

A Move to Toronto

Love brought Karen to Toronto where she continued to work as an independent engineer/ producer. During her time in Toronto, she developed courses in Audio Engineering for the Learning Annex and Centennial College. She also was hired to teach at Toronto’s Harris Institute for the Arts which Karen says “was a big highlight in my life, getting to teach at such a great school.” “I learned how to be a teacher at Harris. I realized I was good at it and the students really liked me. I spent four years teaching there”.

The desire for a warmer climate would bring Karen to Wilmington, North Carolina, where she is now based. In Wilmington, she owns her own professional home recording/mixing studio. She also runs her own audio courses, which take place in the Fall, Winter, and Spring. There are five courses offered, including, Intro to Audio Engineering, Learning Pro Tools, and the “hands-on” only Advanced Course. You can check out her courses here mixmama.com.

In addition to her independent recording work and audio courses, she joined the faculty at the University of North Carolina Wilmington as the instructor for the Recording Technology program there. Karen says the University job is “one of the best things to EVER happen to me.”) Getting to teach Audio Engineering and Pro Tools in a University setting is my dream part-time job! I plan on it being my retirement job!” The 2nd “best” thing to ever happen to her is WINNING the “Producer of the Year 2013” Award last summer at the Carolina Music Awards in Raleigh, NC. AND, she just found out that she is nominated again for Producer of the Year at the Carolina Music Awards for 2014.

Karen on Live Sound

I never had any trouble with how I was perceived as a woman in a live sound position. I THINK mostly because I was not doing big shows with mainstream artists. At the time in Boston, there were not a lot of engineers studio, or live. Because of that, I was able to hook up with a few rock bands and started doing local/regional gigs with them. Later, I went on several U.S. tours (on a converted school bus) with a political folk band named Bright Morning Star. That started in 1980, and I did gigs with them for several years. I also did a lot of local acoustic shows with other singer/songwriters.

On the Evolution of Gear

The studio gear today blows my mind compared to the studio gear in the ’70s and ’80s. There are things I can do today that I NEVER DREAMED possible. I do miss, some things about analog recording (especially the smell of 2″ tape) and the simplicity of it all compared with today’s gear. I cannot speak to live sound, but I can say that as I am learning how to use live digital boards, I love some of the features like calling up monitor mixes and FOH mixes (as many times I do both).

Advice to Women Starting Out

Learn to play a musical instrument…for fun or seriously. It helps with audio engineering in many ways.

Go to a good audio school. Research them and find out all you can about the teachers! That is what makes an audio school GREAT, the teachers! The best audio schools have teachers that are ACTIVE professionals in the music industry.

If you are interested in studio work, TRY to get an internship at a local studio.

If you are interested in live sound, go to as many live shows as you can…stand by the soundboard and watch and listen to what the engineer is doing. This will start to train your ears. And by the way; ANYONE can learn to use equipment, what separates the good from the great are your EARS!

You can also begin training your ears by analyzing recordings…. on a good pair of speakers, describe the tone of each instrument, describe what you hear more in the left speaker or in the right speaker, describe the overall balance of the instruments, and then the instruments with the vocals. It’s a good way to get you to listen more intensely.

 

evening mix

Find More Profiles on The Five Percent

Profiles of Women in Audio

Vivid LIVE at the Sydney Opera House

SG Member Sarah Black

SG Member Sarah Black

Sarah Black has been working in live sound since 2006, and is one of the seven women on the sound crew at the iconic Sydney Opera House. Sarah shares her experiences working Vivid Live with SoundGirls.Org. (more…)

The Sydney Opera House

By: Karrie Keyes

Sydney Opera House

Sydney Opera House

The Sydney Opera house is an iconic performing arts center in Sydney, Australia. It was designed by Danish architect Jorn Utzon and opened in October 1973. The first performance was the Australian Opera’s production of War and Peace. The Syndey Opera House cost over one million Australian dollars to build. The Sydney Opera House hosts over 3000 events each year with over two million people attending, and provides guided tours to over 200,000. It is 185 meters long and 120 meters wide, has 2194 pre-cast concrete sections in the roof, with sections weighing up to 15 tons. There roof is held together with 350 km of tensioned steel cable and has over one million tiles. There are 6225 square meters of glass and 645 kilometers of electric cable. The Sydney Opera House has 1000 rooms. (more…)

The Gigs I Will Never Forget

 

 

The gigs that you remember usually have had a great impact on you. They can inspire & empower or devastate & destroy you. They can humble you. They can make you laugh or make you cry. They can provide a sense of accomplishment. Sometimes you witnessed a performance that becomes legendary or history being made. They can open your eyes to other viewpoints, cultures, musical genres, and artistic expression. The gigs you remember are the ones where you stood on your own when everything clicked when you overcame challenging situations. They are the ones where you thought “I Have the Best Job in the World”. The gigs we remember shape our lives in small ways that may be unnoticeable, but sometimes they alter our life path. The gigs that you remember provide us with experiences that make us stronger humans and engineers. (more…)

The Ones That Make it Have a Gift- Melissa Britton

 

Melissa Britton started in live sound 20 years ago mixing in a classic rock biker bar.   “My friend Casey knew I was interested in learning how to do sound. He was mixing at a club and told me I could come in on Sunday and mix the “Ladies Afternoon Stripper Party” Which was great! I rolled some cd cues and watched hot guys strip. I started working on the weekends mixing local bands. Eventually, Casey left to go work at the sister club, and I was hired on full time.”

While mixing five nights a week, Melissa was also going to school and working a regular job.  She moved on from the club to work for Dowlen Sound in Denver, CO, where she worked festivals, graduations, corporate gigs, plays, comedy, and a large variety of music.  “I worked really hard. I was determined to succeed. I would run circles around the guys. Bret Dowlen taught me a lot. He built his whole sound company from scratch, and even though I came into it 10 or so years after he’d started, I learned a lot from him. Watching him take apart consoles and fix them (analog consoles), watching him build crossover’s, wedges, Subs, and PA stacks and then take it all out and put it all up and analyze it, figure out how it could be better, throw farther, etc.… I learned priceless info from being around all that. “

Melissa with Bret Dowlen

Melissa mixed in every club she could get a gig in doing Monitors or FOH. “I worked every day, seven days a week. I learned by watching others and implementing their style, their technique, their flavor, into my own style, when it was my turn to mix.”  “I learned to work with older analog consoles. Gamble EX56, ATI Paragon, Soundcraft Series 4, 800B, 800, Midas H3000, XL4, Bret even had a couple of Harrison’s.”

What got Melissa into this business in the first place was a love for music. “I am in love with music. I played music growing up. My dad played music while I was growing up. Actually, he still plays, and we are getting ready to cut an album at the end of this month, his lifelong dream I’m very excited about that. “  “I wanted to be involved in music somehow. I knew I wasn’t interested in performing, but I was passionate about music. Mixing was a way to be involved without having to perform on stage. I just wanted to be a part of it. “

Melissa has been working as an independent engineer for ten years now and specializes in monitors but is starting to do more and more FoH. “Dave Koz picked me up in 2001/2002, and I’ve been touring with him ever since. “  “I’ve done several short tours. The longest being about eight weeks, mixing monitors mostly. I was flying PA and teching and mixing monitors on my first tour, which was great a good way to stay in shape.”

europe tour keb mo“I love touring. Especially the way I do it. Which normally is four days on three days off. Almost like a regular job.  Going out on a bus tour is great too! You get into a groove on the road. You connect with new people and develop great relationships. It becomes a family away from your family. I never dreamed when I started that I’d be out on the road touring. It just happened. “

Touring life and the road does come with its own inconveniences. “I started touring when my daughter was five years old. I missed so much of her life over the past 12 years. You can’t get those years back. They are gone forever. I haven’t been home for the Christmas season in 12 years.   You’ve got to make the best of the time you have. Out of all the holidays, birthdays, school events, sports events I’ve missed I make up for the time I have off. Because when I’m off I’m really off and the time is mine to manage. So that’s what I like least. I don’t like missing the things that a 9-5’ver mom gets to experience.  But, I LOVE what I do…and she sees that, and now that she’s older she can appreciate that. How many people can say that about their jobs? I love my job. I wouldn’t change anything.”

Melissa’s favorite day off activities includes DJ’ing. “I have a little turntable rig at home, and sometimes I just hang out and spin. I love house, techno, and dubstep. I’m learning how to work with Ableton and Serato and learning how to remix songs. It’s something I’ve always been interested in.  “I also like playing basketball. I keep working on my shot and being a better player. There’s incredible satisfaction in making a great shot. “ “And I like hanging out with my kids. They are the super special people in my life. I love them so much. “

Kingston Audio Jazz Fest

Kingston Audio Jazz Fest

“One of the highlights of my career was when I was teching/mixing FOH for Rave on the Rocks in 2000, at Red Rocks Amphitheatre. Best show EVER. Paul Oakenfold headlined it was so great. “

Melissa’s long-term goals are to continue learning. “I’m always learning something. If I had to set a goal, it would probably be to take more risks.” “I’d like to tour with some other music genres; pop or rock, but I’m pretty satisfied with where I’m at now…I was just asking myself hmm what’s next

Favorite Gear:

VDOSC and K1 line array systems, Telefunken M80’s, and  Shure Microphones.

“A Midas XL4 is probably still my favorite console, but I hardly see them anymore. I like the Pro9. Lexicon Reverbs, (Best thing about the Vi6). Digital is cool. There’s still something to be said for being able to see all your inputs at once. And analog feels good. For me, there are happy memories associated with it. But in the end, I‘ll take what I can get. There’s always something new to learn on whatever piece of gear you have. “

What does Melissa consider to be must-have skills for working in live sound?

“Patience and a good attitude. The days are long and sometimes roll into the next day. 4 am lobby calls for day of show fly dates requires a good attitude patience and a sense of humor.”

“I believe there’s a certain amount of talent a person has to have to make it this business. It’s not just technical. There’s a feel and an intuition. I don’t know how to describe it. It’s more than just faders and knobs. If you don’t touch the gear with respect and love, it’s not going to work for you.”

“The driver I had on the way to the airport this morning told me that it was a gift that I had. His gift was purifying water for the local water company, and mine was mixing and putting up a show. I had never thought about it like that before.  But he’s right…. the ones that make it have a gift. “

More on Melissa

Monitor Engineer Britton, Earl Klugh Band Give Thumbs Up to NEXO Wedge

The Making of an Original Streaming Concert Series

 

Find More Profiles on The Five Percent

Profiles of Women in Audio

Techniques for System and Wedge EQ

By: Michelle Sabolchick Pettinato

Tuning the system and ringing out wedges. There are many different techniques and everyone has their favorite- from simply speaking into the lead vocal microphone to utilizing tools like Smaart.  SoundGirls.Org spoke to several engineers to find out what techniques they employ. (more…)

Traveling the Long Road – Karrie Keyes

 

Beginning her career in live sound at the age of 18, Karrie Keyes has been the monitor engineer for Pearl Jam and Eddie Vedder for 27 years. She’s also spent ten years 1990-2000 as a monitor engineer for Red Hot Chili Peppers and has mixed a very diverse list of additional artists.

Aversion to Conformity

As a teen, Karrie wasn’t sure what she wanted to do, but she knew one thing – she wasn’t going to conform to society’s standards and soon found that the punk rock scene gave her the philosophy and ideals she found most suited her. “During my teen years, I rebelled against all things that sought to mold and conform me; school, church, societal norms, and expectations. I mainly hung out with two groups of guys as I found I related to them easier than girls. The commonality between the two different groups was music, one group mainly listened to rock music, and the other group listened to punk rock.” Karrie eventually began to hang out more and more with the punk rockers and during that time started dreaming about traveling the world as a writer. “I would have none of the trappings of society; no mortgage, no boss, no husband, and no kids. Each of the guys had similar dreams, but theirs revolved around touring the world as a punk rock band.”

“I watched and listened as they learned to play their instruments and write songs. They never once asked if I wanted to be involved and I did not have the courage to ask. I could be a spectator, a fan, a girlfriend. One day we went to a friend’s rehearsal space, and I saw a soundboard for the first time and wondered if I could run it? Our friend, Ben, was older and in a band that got paying gigs, he laughed at me and told me girls couldn’t run the soundboard. I wondered what other skills were needed to run it or if the only qualification needed was being a dude.”

“I then started to wonder what other jobs there might be in the music industry and had only a vague sense of what roadies did or what it took to put on a live show. I was in orchestras and band through school and knew I wanted to be involved in music but did not know how.” When Karrie inquired in high school about careers in the field, she was told that no one made a living in the music industry. “I wondered how that could be. I saw bands and artists all the time on MTV and thought – they must be making a living? I only had the vaguest sense of what it took for a band to make an album or to put on a concert, but I sensed Fleetwood Mac was not setting up their equipment and I was sure Van Halen was not just paying their roadies with beer and pizza. I had no idea how one would go about becoming a roadie, but sensed that being a woman would be a huge obstacle.”

After high school Karrie ‘half-heartedly’ enrolled in a community college where she did what any other 18-year-old with no idea of what they want to do does: “I worked part-time, showed up at some of my college classes, and went to punk rock shows.”

“As it is with so many things in life, my path would instantly change over a simple decision. The decision was- what punk rock show to go to Fear or Black Flag? The choice was pretty simple as my friends were going to Fear and I could get a ride – Black Flag was to be attended on a public bus that stopped running at 10 pm, which meant I would be stranded until the morning. Black Flag it was! I never did things the easy way!”, she laughs. “The show was a video shoot for the In My Head Tour and Painted Willie and Gone opened up. I managed to weave my way up to the front. Minutes before Black Flag went on, one of their roadies came over and talked to me and I explained I wanted to learn what he did, to learn to do his job! He told me to hang out after the show, and he would show me. Of course, I had no idea what he actually did. So I hung out after the show and he taught me one of the things he, as a sound engineer, had to do: wrap a mic cable. The next day I found myself in Palo Alto with Black Flag and by the time we returned to Los Angeles I knew what I wanted to do – Sound – and my new friend Dave was going to teach me. He inspired me not to give up. Shortly after Black Flag finished their tour, I started working every gig I could with Dave and Rat Sound. I eventually was able to quit my part-time job and never went back to school.

Working for the Underdog

At Rat Sound, Karrie started out at the bottom, loading and unloading trucks full of PA systems and working every show she could from punk rock to gospel and everything in between. This gave her the opportunity to learn all about the gear, how it works and how to troubleshoot. She found the hands-on time with the equipment and opportunity to try things that were not exactly the norm, were invaluable learning experiences. “I did everything – load in and load out, setting up the sound system, wiring the stage, and doing the set changes on weekends for like 20 dollars a show or something ridiculous.”

There were two partners in Rat Sound- Dave and Brian, who each had their system. Karrie worked for Dave. “Dave and I did every show by ourselves for years. Sometimes we would hire a third person, but for the most part, it was just the two of us.”

Rat was hired for many Goldenvoice shows, and Goldenvoice promoted most of the punk rock shows in Southern California. Rat first was hired because the punters could not climb the sound system. Goldenvoice and the So Cal Punk Rock scene were somewhat accepting towards everyone, and Karrie did not face obstacles because of her gender.  “The Heavy Metal scene of the ’80s in LA was not very inviting for women ‘roadies’, but for Punk Rock and Alternative, it was hardly an issue. In all of them, Rat, Goldenvoice, and Punk Rock, the common thread was; we were all underdogs working towards a common goal.”

What obstacles have you faced?

“Being a woman. I just worked as hard as I could. Working for a small sound company had its challenges as well, I was either proving myself as a woman or as a small sound company.” In her early days at Rat Sound, she ran into cultural bias. “I always had a difficult time working with Middle Eastern acts, who just could not wrap their heads around a woman in my position. It was just so against their culture. I use to get very upset, and I now realize it was probably very confusing and upsetting to them as well. When I started doing sound almost 30 years ago, I took a lot of heat from people. You just didn’t see women doing monitors, you still don’t, but I can say it has mellowed a bit. Either that or I just don’t care anymore and tune it out.” Karrie recalls that the core crews she’s toured with have always been respectful, and being a woman has not been an issue. “Although there is always the jerk on tour. I ignore them at this point, and often they are only touring with us for a short period. Usually, I don’t even know about it, as they would not dare say anything to me. I get more shit from the local crews.”

On tour with Danzig and Soundgarden 1990

 

What are some of the lessons you’ve learned throughout your career?

Karrie’s experience of mixing so many styles of music (Jazz, Metal, Country, Punk, Reggae) in her early days with Rat has helped contribute to her job mixing Pearl Jam, who is not your straightforward rock band. The five members have widely ranging monitor needs with each mix being completely different from the others.

“I still think the way to gain the most experience with live sound is by being on the ground and working as many shows as you can. Working for a smaller sound company affords these experiences. The diversity in shows provides you with so much experience when it comes to mixing. The sheer number of engineers you end up working with, and you get to see their ideas and processes working or not working.”

A terrible show in her youth would have devastated her, but now she realizes that you just can’t always have perfect shows. However, she does try to draw from the bad shows and analyze what she could have done differently. 

“I’m always learning”.

What are the benefits of working with the same band for so many years?

“You can keep evolving and perfecting. Eventually, you all know each other so well and navigating the other personalities becomes natural. However, you cannot become complacent in the job. You have to keep working on issues or progressing forward, whether by learning new gear, or learning new tricks, but you get to a point when you’ve really got it down and no longer need to be changing things and starting over with new gear. Sometimes it can get old when you keep hitting the same issues, such as the volume on stage. I am trusted so have more leeway to try different things – but I also know my band very well and don’t expand trying new things into areas that I know are not going to fly.”

Advice for those getting started:

My advice is just to keep going and not to give up – if one door is shut on you, try another door. You are going to knock on a lot of doors, but the ones that open for you – walk through and keep going.

Always keep learning- take advantage of all the online courses and information out there.

Network – find a mentor.

Show up when you say you will – be reliable, ask questions, and take risks

When you are given an opportunity, take it.

Hone your diplomacy skills – they will benefit you on the job and also help you navigate through any sexist crap that you are going to have deal with.

Career Highlights

The Untouchables were a popular Southern California Ska band; No Doubt often opened for them. It was my first gig as an engineer for the band. It was an important step as I took over for the ME as he moved to FOH. That organization not only gave me a chance but Rat Sound as well and always believed in us. The gigs were always full on and taught me how to work fast and to deal with the needs of ten musicians.

 

Social Distortion – I worked and was hired for many shows Social Distortion did in the Southern California area. They were one of my favorite bands and I spent a lot time pinching myself. Social Distortion taught me that one size does not fit all. Mike Ness wanted his mix to sound as if it was coming from FOH. It was not as easy to achieve as you think.

 

 

Touring with Fugazi -The best live band ever! Every show made all the driving, the Motel 6’s, the Denny’s, the gigs with no local crew, security, barricade, or catering worth it. Every single day. If their indefinite hiatus ever comes to an end, I will gladly climb back into the truck. It was a privilege.

 

Pearl Jam – VH1 Tribute to The Who

Again there have been so many gigs that were important, challenging, fun, and played through tears and pain over the years – but this one stood out. It was a marker of how professional our organization had become. How our team pulled together, dropped all ego, and did what we needed to do so the band could do what they needed to do. Anyone that has seen it knows that Pearl Jam nailed it.

 

 

Red Hot Chili Peppers – Woodstock III

While there are many memorable shows over the ten years I worked for them, Woodstock III stands out. This gig happened after I left their organization to be off the road for my daughters. This gig fell in between one of the firings of the ME and hiring a new one. I would always fill in until another engineer was hired. I remember being happy and relieved that I would not have to mix this show.

We had played the second Woodstock, going on before Peter Gabriel, who headlined. It was a complete disaster. We did not have a line check earlier in the day, did not have any monitor equipment and were stretched thin with a bare bones crew. I let the sound guys push me around and mix position was about 80 feet from the band.

Needless to say, I was not happy when I found myself being asked to do this gig. I made a few demands – we were bringing in our system (which is not uncommon now, but was not standard practice then) this made our production manager less than happy as well as production on the Woodstock end.

We only had one promo warm up gig before going in, so the mixes were not dialed, and the system was not set up to go into a festival. I worked thru the day doing whatever I could during other band’s set changes so I would be ready. The sound and production guys were awesome and helpful.

When the band hit the first notes, I knew I had nailed it. It sounded great, and I knew the band was happy. At the end of the gig, I discovered Pearl Jam’s site coordinator and stage manager was head production on Woodstock and had told everyone to help me and listen to me as I knew my shit. The sound crew came up after the gig and said it was so nice to see an engineer that knew what they were doing. And three weeks later at a band rehearsal, Anthony told me that the sound was perfect.

Find More Profiles on The Five Percent

Profiles of Women in Audio

It’s about the Music- Michelle Sabolchick Pettinato

michprofileWith a career in live sound that spans nearly 30 years, Michelle Sabolchick Pettinato has been the sound engineer for some of the most recognizable names in music.
Since her first tour with the band ‘Spin Doctors’ in 1992, Michelle has been touring the world as an independent Engineer, mixing a variety of Rock and Pop artists including
Indigo Girls, Jewel, Gwen Stefani, Ke$ha, Mr. Big, Melissa Etheridge, Goo Goo Dolls, Styx and many more.

In 2015 Michelle was inducted into Full Sail University’s Hall of Fame. She is an active mentor and coach to those seeking a career in Live Sound and Music Production and has been a frequent speaker on industry and university panels and conferences.

Being in the right place at the right time

Michelle did her first tour as FOH Engineer in 1992. It came about as a result of years of hard work, making sure everyone she met knew that her goal was to get on the road, and a little bit of fate.

“I had been working in live sound for a few years, moving back and forth between Pennsylvania (where I was from) and Florida trying to find enough work to survive. When a job I was promised at a sound company in PA fell through, I had booked a ticket on Amtrak to move back to Florida where I had plenty of work. As fate would have it, on the day I was supposed to leave for Florida, Amtrak went on strike, putting my plans on hold. That very afternoon my friend, John Heidenriech, called to see if I would be interested in taking over his mixing gig with a band doing a national club tour. He needed to leave the tour and was looking for a replacement. They would be coming through my area in a few days and knowing how hard I worked and how badly I wanted to be on tour, he decided to offer me the gig. I was to meet the band a few days later at which point I would begin a two-week trial period. I had never heard of the band and didn’t care. I just wanted to get on tour. My trial by fire was a success, and I got the gig.”
The band was the Spin Doctors, and less than a month later their album broke through Billboard’s top 100 and shot up the charts. That was the start of Michelle’s 20+ year touring career as a FOH engineer.

Michelle being presented a gold record from Spin Doctors circa 1994

Michelle being presented a gold record from Spin Doctors circa 1994

But the real work had started much earlier……Is it something that you always knew you wanted to do and if so, how did you first become aware of a career in sound engineering?

“Music was always a huge part of my life. I began playing piano at a very young age and in high school would accompany friends for talent shows and vocal competitions. I played for the school chorus, church choir, etc… But in all of that, I hated being on stage. I hated being the center of attention, so I always knew that a career in the spotlight wasn’t for me. But behind the spotlight or soundboard as in my case, now that was a whole different story. As a kid, I was always fascinated with how things work, taking apart my dad’s broken reel to reel tape recorder and fixing it, dismantling my record players and other electronics. So when I was in Junior High, and it came time to answer the question ‘what do you want to do with your life,’ the answer just came naturally. I wanted to be a recording engineer. That way I could be creatively involved in making music but not have to be a performer. I didn’t even know if it was a career- as a matter of fact, my guidance counselor assured me it wasn’t and I would have to pick something else.”

Knowing of her interest in the music business, a good friend introduced Michelle to a local promoter who let her shadow him at his shows in order to get a taste of the business. “I remember we once had a fairly prominent regional band play at our high school auditorium and they were looking for people to volunteer as stage hands. My best friend and I were the only two people who showed up. The band, of course, were a bit stunned to find out that we were seriously interested in working and learning about the equipment and not just there to meet them and hang out. I think they got a kick out of watching us work, and the whole time they were in disbelief that these ‘chicks’ cared more about learning the soundboard than hanging out with them backstage.”

Michelle also had a strong desire to travel from a very young age. “Growing up in a tiny, tiny town- I wanted desperately to get out and see the world. In looking back, I think my entire childhood led up to this career and I can’t honestly see how I could have ended up doing anything else.”

Mixing FOH for Indigo Girls in 1998

Mixing FOH for Indigo Girls in 1998

How did you get your start? Did you receive any formal training or education in music and/or audio?

“Once I made the decision to pursue audio engineering, I really had no other choice but to get some training or education. There was no music scene where I lived, no studios to speak of where I could learn, and I had no idea how or where to even begin. After one year of college, majoring in music, I found out about the Recording Workshop in Chillicothe, OH. I took their 5-week course in Basic Recording Engineering and Studio Maintenance. After completing the course, I got a job at a brand new local radio station. I wanted to record commercials, but they told me I had to sell them first. I spent several months working there but quickly realized it wasn’t going to get me where I wanted to be. Next, I took a bus to Nashville to try and get a job in a recording studio. I spent three weeks walking around music row handing out my resume, (which consisted of entirely two lines- The Recording Workshop and WMGH) to every studio I could find. It didn’t take me long to realize I still had a lot to learn and this wasn’t going to happen easily. Young and naive was an understatement. But I had balls. After weeks of being graciously told ‘we’re just not hiring anyone right now,’ I came to realize that despite my five-week education, I still didn’t know enough about making records, and I needed to do something about that if I intended to ever work in this business. I moved back home and soon saw an ad for Full Sail, another technical school with a much more comprehensive 9-month program in music production. I enrolled, and it was while I was attending Full Sail that I fell in love with live sound.”

Paying her dues

Michelle began working immediately after graduating from Full Sail, starting with interning at a local sound company outside of Phili, where she worked ‘basically for free until I couldn’t afford it any longer.’ Her job entailed spending hours in the shop helping to build road cases, cleaning consoles, prepping gear for shows, cleaning up and putting away gear from shows, loading, and unloading trucks, building mic cables, repairing snakes, etc.… “On weekends after a full day in the shop, I would load a van full of gear, drive it to a gig, load in, set up, do the gig, load out, drive back to the shop and unload it, catch a few hours of sleep and do it all over again the next day.”

Michelle and the women of Indigo Girls band and crew circa 2002

Michelle and the women of Indigo Girls band and crew circa 2002

From there, she went on to do some studio work. “I got hired as an assistant which meant I made the coffee, cleaned up after sessions, ordered the takeout, got to play tape op once in a while (this was long before pro tools or the digital age of recording). On the upside, the owner was kind enough to let me practice mixing during the off hours when no sessions were booked.”

Unable to find enough work to make a living in PA, Michelle moved back to Florida, where she knew there was more opportunity. “I spent most of the next year there, working at the 50s and 60s nightclub- running lights and mixing, whenever the A1 and A2 were unavailable. I also took a job in the A/V department of a local entertainment complex, which gave me an opportunity to hone my troubleshooting skills, in between mixing various bands from oldies rock and roll to Dixieland jazz.” Michelle spent days working in the tech department, soldering, building, and repairing various pieces of equipment, setting up sound systems for talking heads and corporate functions, all the typical jobs you would find in an A/V department. “When I wasn’t working at either job I did stagehand work and also part-time work with another local sound company. I worked as much as I could, as hard as I could, and learned everything I could from everyone around me. In the meantime, I was sending resumes to all the national touring sound companies I had heard of.”

What obstacles have you faced?

“I came from a very small town with very traditional values and old-fashioned ideas; mainly that girls grew up, graduated, got married and started a family. If you wanted a job, you were pretty much relegated to one of the local factories or shops at the mall. There wasn’t much there for a strong, independent, unconventional girl like myself, who wanted to get out and see the world. When I made the decision to pursue a career in the music industry I was met with resistance everywhere I turned. My mother freaked out. My music teacher suggested a degree in music therapy, so I would have a career to fall back on. When I decided to go away to school to learn recording engineering, my friends thought I was crazy and couldn’t understand why I would move so far away all by myself. I was a pretty shy, quiet kid. I was fearless but at the same time scared of everything. So for me to pack up, leave home, my friends, and head off to school all alone was huge, but I was on a mission. I knew exactly what I wanted to do with my life and this was the first step.”

The music industry is a male-dominated field, which is especially evident in live sound. But that’s never stopped Michelle, and she feels it’s never really been a problem for her. “I was extremely driven from the start, and I’ve always taken the job seriously and focused on doing the best job I could. Sexism either didn’t happen or I just didn’t see it because I didn’t care. I was doing my job and doing what I loved, and I didn’t care what anyone else thought about it. When I was first starting out, I constantly heard, ‘You’re the first female engineer I’ve seen,’ and I would get a lot of sideways glances and strange looks but it’s never hindered me from doing my job. The bottom line is when you work hard and are good at your job, people notice and they respect you for that. Sure, I’ve run into the occasional sexist remark or guy who just couldn’t get his head around women being equal to men, but they’ve been by far the exception and not the norm. And there have been times I’ve felt that I had to work harder, smarter, faster than all of the guys around me to prove myself, but that just made me better at my job.”

“I’ve also had a lot of support from men in the industry. Mark Johnson of Fidelity Sound Reinforcement provided the PA for the very first tour that I did with full production. During that tour, he told me if I ever needed work to call him. I took him up on that offer and for several years early in my touring career, whenever I was home for more than a few weeks, I would head to VA Beach and work for Mark. He treated me like an equal right from the start, even though he had years of experience on me. ML Procise and Clair Bros. have also always been incredibly supportive from early in my career as well as my husband of 16 years, Production Manager Jim Pettinato.”

michelle-jakarta
What are some of the lessons you have learned throughout your career?
“On my very first tour with Spin Doctors, I did one club gig with the band before we went on to join the Horde tour festival, on which we never had a soundcheck. Talk about trial by fire. I mixed my ass off learning how to pull together a mix from nothing more than a line check over headphones, and as fast as possible since our set length was only 30 minutes. This was eons before digital consoles, so I was starting from scratch every day on a console that all the bands shared, there was no- plugging in your thumb drive and loading your file from the last gig… We went on from there to headline clubs and colleges and then bigger venues. In 1994 we spent a few months opening for the Rolling Stones on their Voodoo Lounge tour. I was mixing in NFL Stadiums and NHL Hockey Arenas all over the country as well as soccer stadiums in South America where I mixed my biggest gig ever, in front of 100,000 people. Again, we never had a soundcheck, and the pressure was on to pull it together quick for our 30-minute set.”

Michelle credits the early days of having to mix on ‘whatever crap PA of the day’ in making her a better engineer. “You really hone your skills by having to pull off miracles.” It also helped improve her troubleshooting skills. “9 times out of 10 there would be something wrong with the house system, and oddly enough, the house guy rarely seemed interested in fixing it. So I would spend half my day tracking down bad lines, mismatched crossovers, bad amp channels, you name it. Back in those days, the quality of the equipment left a lot to be desired. You could have a top of the line system one day and a pile of proprietary garbage the next. Sometimes it was completely different speaker cabinets on the left and right! Everyone and their brother was building a PA in their garage, and most of them had no idea what they were doing. Luckily things have progressed tremendously; it’s rare to find a really bad system these days.”

Gwen 1

Mixing Gwen Stefani’s -Harajuku Lovers tour 2005

Gwen 2

Mixing Gwen Stefani’s -Harajuku Lovers tour 2005

What do you like best about touring?
“The relationships you build with people. Your fellow band and crew become your family. You can form some really close bonds with the people you work with. I met my husband on tour and some of the bands and crew I’ve worked with over the years are my closest and dearest friends. The nature of the job is that we are our own little rolling community and we’re all in it together working for the same result- to make the show happen no matter what.”

“I also love and hate the travel. I love getting to see the world and touring Europe/ Japan/ Australia, but I hate the excruciatingly long flights to get there. It’s time for someone to invent the transporter!”

“It’s always been about the music. It’s never been about doing the biggest tours or mixing the most high profile artists. It’s been about mixing good music, and I am lucky to have witnessed some great musical moments and have had the opportunity to work with so many inspiring and incredibly talented musicians. Best of all, when the lights go down in the arena and the crowd goes crazy, and the air is buzzing with energy and excitement as the band hits the stage, the feeling of knowing that you played a part in making all of that happen, is pretty great.”

Advice you have for other women and young women who wish to enter the field?
Be Persistent and don’t wait for someone to offer you your dream gig, you have to go out and make it happen.
Learn everything you can from every job you have and never stop learning.
Learn signal flow, proper gain structure, and basic troubleshooting. If you have these skills, you can mix on any console.
Train, trust, protect, and use your ears- They are the most valuable tool you have, and best of all they are free!
Don’t be afraid to ask questions.
Don’t be afraid to network and let everyone you meet know what your goals are.
Work hard, work smart, and know your craft.
Have confidence in yourself and your abilities and don’t be afraid to admit what you don’t know, no one expects you to know everything.
Be ready for opportunities and have the courage to take them.
Most importantly- USE YOUR EARS! Your ears are the most valuable tool you have when mixing. Train them, learn how to mix with your ears and not your eyes.

Must have skills?
Along with working well with others, being a self-starter, and having a thick skin, you’ve got to be able to hang with the guys and be comfortable around men, because you will be working and living with them. It’s a male-dominated field and if you don’t like working and living with a bunch of dudes- this isn’t the right place for you. Just as someone who can’t deal with the sight of blood shouldn’t be a doctor. Guys are guys, and while there are always exceptions, more often than not they are respectful of their fellow crew women. I’ve actually been told on more than one occasion by the TM and/or PM, that they like having at least one woman on the crew, it tends to bring the whole testosterone thing down a notch.

Final thoughts
Don’t ever let anyone tell you that you can’t do something. When I decided this was my path, everyone told me I couldn’t do it, and I just said ‘watch me.’ It doesn’t matter where you come from, what your background or resources are if you work really hard at following your dreams, set goals, and tell everyone you know what your goals are, you’ll be amazed at how the right people will come into your life. If you stay true to your dreams and goals, things will happen for you. But it takes work; it doesn’t mean saying I want to be an “insert occupation here” and sitting around on facebook all day whining and wishing for it to happen. It means setting goals and knocking on doors and going after your dreams. Be dedicated, be motivated, and show initiative, when people see that, doors will open for you.

We caught up with Michelle for a 2019 update:

Michelle recently created and launched Mixing Music Live, an online video course for live sound and mixing. She continues to be a full time touring sound engineer and can be currently found on tour mixing Elvis Costello.

More on Michelle:

The SoundGirls Podcast – OG Soundgirl Michelle Sabolchick Pettinato on touring & live sound

Signal To Noise, Episode 65

Roadie Free Radio

Michelle Sabolchick Pettinato | Hall of Fame – Full Sail University

Pro To Pro: Catching Up With FOH Engineer Michelle Sabolchick Pettinato

 

Find More Profiles on The Five Percent

Profiles of Women in Audio

X